Category Archives: Self-Directed Roth IRA

Required Minimum Distributions for 2011

Question: Mom received two RMD letters one for her Roth IRA and one for her Roth 401k. As these are both Roth’s isn’t she exempt from mandatory distributions? Regardless she hasn’t owned the accounts for at least 5 years.

Answer: Regarding the RMD letters, your Mom does NOT need to take an RMD from her Roth IRA.  They centralized the process of sending out RMD letters this year, and someone erroneously failed to delete the Roth IRAs from the list.  I apologize for the error made by Quest IRA, Inc.  The only time you ever have to take an RMD from a Roth IRA is if the Roth IRA is an inherited IRA.

However, if your Mom has reached age 70 ½ she DOES have to take an RMD from her Roth 401(k).  Nothing in the 401(k) regulations exempts Roth 401(k)s from the mandatory distribution requirements.  As a 5% or more owner of the company, she cannot defer distributions as she could if she was just a worker bee.  The fact that she has not met the 5 year requirement to make it a qualified distribution doesn’t change the distribution requirements.  Essentially, her contributions and the profits will come out pro rata, so that if 75% of the money in her Roth 401(k) is her contribution and 25% is profit, then the taxable portion of her distribution will be 25% until she meets the 5 year requirement.

Let me know if you have any questions. Have a great day!

 

How Can My Minor Child Have a Roth IRA?

By H. Quincy Long

“How can my minor child have a Roth IRA?” If I only had a million dollars for every time I have been asked this question, I would be a very rich person!  When entrepreneurial people learn of the myriad of possibilities for non-traditional investments within a self-directed IRA, they usually immediately see the benefit of starting on their child’s retirement now in addition to utilizing their own IRAs.  In this article I will discuss the benefits of starting an IRA early, how a minor can qualify for a Roth IRA, the tax filing requirements for a minor with earned income, and what can be done with the IRA once the money is deposited in the account.

First, let me briefly discuss the benefits of starting early on retirement savings.  Assume your 15 year old daughter starts off her Roth IRA with $1,000 from her earnings and adds $1,000 per year until she retires at age 67.  If she can earn an average return of just 10% per year, her tax free Roth IRA will be worth $1,552,472 at retirement – not bad for only investing a total of $52,000 over 52 years.  Contrast this with an individual who starts saving at age 35 and puts $5,000 in for 32 years with the same annual return of 10%.  His Roth IRA will be worth approximately $1,111,253 when he retires at age 67, and his contributions will total $160,000.  No matter what your age and annual return assumptions are, one thing is very clear – the earlier you start saving the better!

Before you get too excited and start writing your IRA custodian or administrator checks to open Roth IRAs for your minor children, you must make sure that they qualify to make a contribution.  In order to contribute to a Roth IRA, a single individual must have earned income (compensation) at least in the amount of the contribution and Adjusted Gross Income of no more than $122,000 (for 2011).  For example, if your daughter earns $1,000 babysitting in 2011, she can contribute a maximum of only $1,000 to her Roth IRA, even though the contribution limit for individuals under age 50 is $5,000.

How can a minor earn money so they qualify to contribute to a Roth IRA?  The younger your child is, the more difficult it will be to justify compensation if the IRS questions the contribution.  I have heard of parents hiring their minor children as a model for advertising purposes in the parents’ trade or business, but if you intend to do this make sure that you actually use the photos in your advertising.  Keep track of how and when you use the photos, and have adequate documentation in your file as to what reasonable compensation would be for a model doing an advertising shoot with unlimited use of the photos.  By the age of 8 or 9 children can be of some use to their parents’ businesses by doing things like cleaning up trash in the yard of rent houses, collating materials if the parent teaches classes, stuffing and stamping envelopes, or other menial tasks.  At age 7 my daughter helped me with artwork to put on t-shirts by carefully writing in crayon “Do you have a self-directed IRA?  I do!”  I then had her wonderful artwork turned into a silk screen for the back of t-shirts with my company logo on the front.  I gave away hundreds of the shirts to my clients.  With the unusual writing on the back of the shirts, people asked a lot of questions about self-directed IRAs and it turned out to be one of my most effective advertising campaigns!  Other ways for minors to earn money include cutting grass, babysitting, or working at restaurants and offices when they are a little older.  If you are hiring your minor children in your own business, be sure that you always document the time spent working and pay them a reasonable wage.  The importance of good records cannot be overstated.

The next questions I get asked when discussing Roth IRAs for minors are “What is the tax effect of my child earning compensation?” and “Does my child have to file a tax return?”  I will briefly summarize the rules here, but always check with your CPA or tax professional.  More information may also be found in IRS Publication 929, Tax Rules for Children and Dependents.  A minor child who is a dependent on someone else’s tax return cannot claim a dependency exemption, but can still claim the standard deduction on their tax return if they are required to file.  The standard deduction for a single dependent minor varies between $950 and $5,700 for 2010, depending on the type and amount of income.  In general, for 2010 a dependent minor must file a tax return if 1) unearned income, such as interest and dividends, was over $950, 2) earned income was over $5,700, or 3) if the minor has both earned income and unearned income, the gross income was more than the larger of $950 or the earned income (up to $5,400) plus $300.  If the dependent minor worked at an employer who withheld income taxes from their paycheck, in most cases they will want to file a return to collect a refund of this amount, even if there was no filing requirement.

There are situations where a dependent minor has to file a tax return regardless of the above filing requirements.  One of the more common circumstances is when the dependent minor has net earnings from self-employment (such as from babysitting or cutting grass) of $400 or more.  Net earnings from self-employment for IRA contribution purposes are calculated by taking the net Schedule C income and subtracting one-half of the self-employment taxes due and the contribution to any self-employment retirement plan such as a SEP IRA.  If this amount is $400 or more, the dependent minor will owe Social Security and Medicare tax on that income and will have to file a tax return to pay the tax.  For example, a recent tax client of mine who was 18 years old and still a dependent on her mother’s tax return earned $3,183 doing clerical work, for which she received a 1099-MISC.  She was not treated as an employee by the person who hired her, and she was required to file a dependent tax return to report this income.  Because her Adjusted Gross Income was below $5,700 she owed no federal income tax.  Unfortunately, she still owed $487 in Social Security and Medicare taxes.  If she had been treated as an employee, the employer would have paid its portion and withheld her portion of the Social Security and Medicare tax from her paycheck.  In that case she would not have had to file a federal tax return, unless she wanted to claim a refund for any federal income taxes withheld.

There is an interesting exception to the requirement that a dependent minor pay Social Security and Medicare tax on their earned income.  If a child under age 18 works in their parent’s trade or business and their parent’s business is either a sole proprietorship or a partnership in which the parents are the only partners, the income is exempt from Social Security and Medicare taxes, as well as federal unemployment taxes (FUTA).  This exception does not apply if the business is incorporated or if the partnership includes persons other than parents.  The exemption is extended to those under age 21 for work other than in a trade or business, such as domestic work in the parent’s private home.  So if a minor earns compensation of less than $5,700 working in their parent’s trade or business or for domestic work in the parent’s private home and they have no other income, no federal income tax or Social Security and Medicare taxes would be due.  This means that no tax return would have to be filed, but they would still qualify to contribute to a Roth IRA up to the amount of their earned income, subject to the $5,000 maximum contribution!  However, just to be safe it may be advisable to go ahead and file a zero tax due return for documentation purposes.  Always check with your CPA or tax advisor to find out if your child will owe state or local income taxes on this income.  More information on the family employee exception to Social Security and Medicare taxes may be found in IRS Publication 15, Circular E, Employer’s Tax Guide, Chapter 3.

What you can do with the money once in a Roth IRA?  The beauty of a self-directed IRA is that even small amounts can be invested in non-traditional investments.  There are at least four ways a small Roth IRA can be invested.  The Roth IRA may be combined with IRAs of other people to make a single investment.  The most IRAs I have seen participate in a single note investment was 10 different accounts, with the smallest IRA investor contributing only $2,000.  That note had a yield of 12% per year!  Another investment which is common in small IRA accounts is an option to buy real estate.  Once you have an option, you may let it lapse, exercise the option and close on the property, sell the option to a third party for a fee if the option agreement allows this, or even release the option for a cancellation fee from the property owner.  Another variation on this idea is for the Roth IRA to enter into a sales contract, then assign that contract to a third party for a fee.  Finally, the IRA could buy a property with a loan, either from taking over the property subject to the seller’s existing financing, negotiating non-recourse seller financing, or obtaining a non-recourse loan from a private party or another non-disqualified IRA.  However, if the IRA either owns debt-financed property or operates a business of any type (including a real estate dealer business), it may be required to file IRS Form 990T and pay Unrelated Business Income Tax (UBIT).  Always be sure and have your child’s IRA pay the taxes if they are due.  It is great to use the tax law to your advantage, but do not abuse the law, because the IRS has what it takes to take what you have.

If your child qualifies, there is no doubt that one of the best things you can do for them is to open a Roth IRA.  Perhaps the best part of this strategy is the time you will spend with your child teaching them the benefits of saving early and the methods of investing their money wisely. This is truly a win-win situation for both you and your child.  Happy investing!

Would it be a prohibited transaction if I only owned 25% of the entity???

Question:

I’ve just finished reading a 102 page pdf document which contained articles authored by you concerning Self-Directed IRAs.

I’m confused as to whether or not my particular circumstance would fall under the prohibited transaction category.

I’m employed by XYZ Company, a manager of commercial real estate assets.

XYZ Holdings is under contract to acquire a 50 unit student housing asset in Austin, TX for $4.65 million.  With closing costs and renovation costs, the total costs of the transaction are $5.0 million.  We are financing the acquisition with a $3.75 million loan from KeyBank, and raising the remaining $1.25 million through a friends and family private placement equity raise.

The loan from ABC Bank is an 18 month bridge loan which is full recourse to me and my partner.  However, once we implement some improvements to the asset and increase the net cash flow generated by the property, we will refinance into a non-recourse permanent loan.

As compensation for finding this transaction and sponsoring the deal, my partner and I will receive 25% of the ownership in the entity which owns the asset.  The equity investors who invest the $1.25 million of equity will receive the remaining 75% of ownership in the entity which owns the asset.

XYZ Management Company will manage the asset at some point in the future, but not initially.  I’m technically an employee of XYZ Management Company, but not an owner of XYZ Management Company.

I would like to invest an existing traditional IRA of mine, which has a balance of approximately $160,000, as a portion of the $1.25 million of required equity capital, thus giving me a limited partner position in the ownership entity, in addition to my sponsorship promote equity position.

Is the proposed IRA investment acceptable, or would this be considered a prohibited transaction?

Thank you for your assistance on this issue.

Answer:

Unfortunately, this would be a prohibited transaction.  You cannot use your IRA for your personal benefit now, and clearly having your IRA invest in a  project that you receive a 25% personal interest in would violate the rules.  The goal of the prohibited transaction rules overall is to make sure that transactions in your IRA are on an arms-length basis.  We would love to assist you with your self-directed IRA needs if you identify an investment that fits within the parameters of the law.  Good luck with your project, and have a great day!

(Quincy’s Most Frequently Read Articles)

Questions about Real Estate in a self-directed IRA and about paying or receiving management fees?

Question:

I have done a pretty good amount of learning about self-directed IRA’s and investing locally in real estate and have talked extensively with Equity Trust and Pensco.  Just learned about your company through a Sacramento real estate investing club and perused a powerpoint you put together.

I had 2 questions for you:

1) I have heard mixed things about whether or not you can pay yourself a management fee from property you purchased with your own self-directed ira funds.  Do you have some clarification as to the perception of the IRS on this issue?  I’ve heard that you can get a letter from a local respected industry professional to verify the amount but I’ve also read this could be perceived as commingling.  (I am aware of the strict rules of keeping all funds separate in all other regards).

2) How does your company compare to Equity Trust with regard to monthly and other fees?

Answer:

Thank you for your inquiry.  The answer to your first question is no, you absolutely may not take any kind of management fees for property owned by your IRA.  When people tell you that, they are misunderstanding Internal Revenue Code Section 4975(d)(2), which is often referred to as the “reasonable compensation exception.”  They may also be looking at IRS Publication 590, which in attempting to explain in plain English the rules makes the statement that taking unreasonable compensation for managing an IRA is a prohibited transaction.  This statement is simply a summary of 4975(d)(2), which many people misinterpret.  What people conveniently tend to ignore is that you have to read the whole statute to understand the rules, and 4975(d) starts out with the phrase “except as provided in subsection (f)(6)…”  Unfortunately, 4975(f)(6) voids the reasonable compensation exception for IRA beneficiaries, which means you are not able to take advantage of the reasonable compensation exception for your own IRA property.  Some people still want to cling to this idea anyway, but the Treasury Regulations for Section 4975 explicitly state “However, section 4975(d)(2) does not contain an exemption for acts described in section 4975(c)(1)(E) (relating to fiduciaries dealing with the income or assets of plans in their own interest or for their own account) or acts described in section 4975(c)(1)(F) (relating to fiduciaries receiving consideration for their own personal account from any party dealing with a plan in connection with a transaction involving the income or assets of the plan).  Such acts are separate transactions not described in section 4975(d)(2).”  Sections 4975(c)(1)(E)-(F) make it a prohibited transaction for a fiduciary to directly or indirectly benefit from the income or assets of the IRA, and you are a fiduciary of your self-directed IRA.  The final result of this legal somersaulting is that the IRA owner cannot be compensated.  Anyone advising you otherwise does not fully comprehend the rules.

The details of the above analysis and many other things you need to know about self-directed IRAs may be found in the book that I co-wrote with Dyches Boddiford and George Yeiter entitled “Real Estate Investment Using Self-Directed IRAs and Other Retirement Plans.”  You may want to obtain a copy of the book for your future reference. Contact Ryan Kimura (Ryan@QuestIRA.com) for a copy. It retails for $19.99 including shipping and handling.

With regards to your second question, I refer you to our fee schedule, which is included in the EZ IRA Starter kit attached.  In some instances we would be cheaper than Equity Trust Co. and in others we would be more expensive.  However, we feel that our knowledge base and more personal service cannot be beat at any price.

Quest IRA, Inc. Application with Fee Schedule

Has my Self-Directed IRA been “invalidated”?

Question:

Dear Mr. Long,

You are probably going to receive quite a few emails on this subject today.  An “IRA Expert” Tax Attorney (Tim Berry) gave a webinar last night stating that most IRAs (99%) have engaged in a “prohibited transaction” causing them to lose their tax-deferred IRS status and be deemed “fully distributed!”

Naturally, this news was quite disconcerting.  The “prohibited transaction” being an extension of credit between the IRA and a “disqualified person.”  This sentence in the IRA Application is the supposed culprit:

“I agree to release, indemnify, defend and hold the Administrator and/or Custodian harmless from any claims, including, but not limited to, actions, liabilities, losses, penalties, fines and/or third party claims. ansing out of my account and/or in connection with any action taken in reliance upon my written instructions, designations and representations, or in the exercise of any right. power or duty of Custodian and/or Administrator, its agents or assigns.”

By signing the application containing the word “indemnify,” it does seem that I have extended credit on my IRA to a disqualified person, ie: Quest IRA, Inc. as custodian.  Apparently, there was a ruling from the Department Of Labor dated October 2009 clarifying that this is considered a “personal guarantee.”

As an attorney, I hope you are aware of this issue.  The status of my IRA is of great concern and I need to have this issue clarified.  I realize that the attorney giving the webinar was trying to scare us and it worked!  For $1,995 he will go to the IRS, request clemency and get clients’ IRA accounts “re-validated.”  Seems like a bargain considering the taxes and penaties can be up to 60% of the account’s value.  He also stated that the custodian firms were liable for bringing accounts back into compliance.

Please let me know your thoughts on this as soon as possible.  I look forward to hearing from another attorney’s point of view.

Answer:

Thank you for your email.  I understand your concern, but the ruling that is the basis of these claims is NOT the same facts as we have here at Entrust.  If you read the full sentence below, you will clearly see that you are only indemnifying the Administrator against any of your own written instructions, etc.  In other words, all the sentence you refer to says is that if you instruct us to take some action then you cannot turn around and blame us for following your instructions.  I have attached the actual ruling which I believe forms the basis of the statements by Mr. Berry and others.  Read the clause being referred to as the problem.  It has to do with granting a security interest in all accounts held by that individual at the brokerage firm.  Specifically, the language reads:

“All securities and other property now or hereafter held, carried or maintained by us in our possession or control, for any purpose, in or for the benefit of any of your Accounts, now or hereafter opened, including any Account in which you may have an interest, shall be subject to a continuing first lien and first priority perfected security interest in favor of us for the discharge of all indebtedness and your obligations to us, and are to be held by us as security for the payment of any liability or indebtedness of yours to us in any of your accounts.

You authorize us the right to transfer securities and other property so held by us from or to any other of your Accounts held by us, whenever, in our judgment, we consider such transfer necessary for our protection… .”

As you can see, the situation described in the Opinion Letter is not even close to the situation here at Entrust.  Unlike in the brokerage application, you are not granting a security interest in your account to us or extending your credit in any way to your IRA.  Since Quest IRA, Inc. does not handle any accounts other than IRAs, and since the language in our application clearly does not grant a security interest in your IRA for payment of any liability or indebtedness of yours, the ruling should not apply to your IRA at Entrust.

Other facts which you should be aware of when considering Mr. Berry’s offer include the fact that Advisory Opinion letters from the Department of Labor only apply to the person asking for the ruling.  It is not legal precedent, but rather an interpretation based on the particular facts represented to the Department of Labor for that situation.

Finally, if you step back and think logically about what is being represented by Mr. Berry and others, do you honestly think that the lobbyists for the retirement industry and the politicians would allow the IRS to declare millions of IRAs to be invalidated?  This person is attempting to sell you a “service” that is not necessary, at least in your situation.  If anything, the solution to the problem of the language would be a company-wide one for each custodian, not a case by case solicitation of a prohibited transaction exemption.  It is interesting that all of a sudden Mr. Berry and others are attempting to be so helpful when the ruling has been out since October of 2009.  Have you heard news stories of the IRS sweeping in and declaring millions of IRAs invalid in the last year and a half?  I haven’t either.

Link: http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/regs/aos/ao2009-03a.html

Can my Aunt lend me money out of her IRA?

Question:

My aunt recently retired and transferred her retirement to a Merrill lynch account. She is going to loan me money for a real estate purchase. Could this be done in a self directed account?

Answer:

Loans may certainly be made from self-directed IRAs, including those secured by real estate.  This is an everyday occurrence at Quest IRA, Inc.  The only word of caution I want to give you is to be aware of the prohibited transaction rules.  There are a list of persons with whom an IRA is not permitted to do business, called “disqualified persons.”  Fortunately, you would NOT be a disqualified person as to your aunt’s IRA.  However, your aunt should be aware that a benefit to a person in whom she has an interest which would affect her best judgment as a fiduciary for her IRA may be deemed to be an indirect benefit to her, in which case the IRS might argue that it was a prohibited transaction if they ever audited her account.  At a minimum you should be sure that the loan is on commercially reasonable terms.

Unfortunately, a full discussion of the prohibited transaction rules is not possible in a short email.  The good news is that we have tons of articles and other materials on various topics related to self-directed IRAs on our website at www.QuestIRA.com.  Also, you may contact either Nathan Long in our Houston office at extension 3574 or Ryan Kimura in our Dallas office at extension 3584 if you want to have a fuller discussion.  Either of them can provide you with the necessary materials for your aunt to open an account.  Good luck with your investing, and I wish you a happy, healthy and prosperous 2011!

The Road to Tax Free Wealth: Roth Coversion in 2011 and Beyond

Luckily for Americans the income limitation for converting tax deferred funds (Traditional) to tax free funds (Roth) is still lifted. Will it be lifted for good? We don’t know the answer to that and have to take advantage of the opportunity when it arises as the government frequently changes it’s mind and it policies.

By now you have probably heard about the opportunity to convert your tax deferred funds in your retirement account into tax free funds. There are many questions that arise with this opportunity that is being presented to all Americans. This special FREE webinar iis for those that want to hear about one expert’s analysis, H, Quincy Long, on this great opportunity. He will be analyzing this in the hopes that whether you are a high net worth individual, or someone who is just trying to make up loses from 2008, it will be evidently clear that the information applies to anyone with a retirement account that is interested in tax free gains for themselves and/or their heirs. This is one FREE webinar, your family and all of your advisors will want to attend.

(Register Here for 2012 Roth Conversions Webinar: “The Road to Tax-Free Wealth” – 4/12/2012)

Roth Conversion in 2011?

Question:

Hi Quincy.  I’m hoping you can give me your take on 2011 Roth conversions.  I have spoken to Nathan and Ryan and they seem to have different perspectives on this.  I have already done one Roth conversion this year and have recently closed on another property which I would like to convert to a Roth in 2011.  Nathan seems to think that this should not be a problem yet Ryan feels that it is unlikely that they will be allowed in 2011 (assuming I exceed that income limitations).  Is there any actual rules in place for 2011?  What are your thoughts on this?  Since we are very near year end I’d appreciate a response ASAP.. Thank you. (This question came in in 2010 where we now know the conversion rules for 2011)

Answer:

Yes, I can.  The rules as they stand right now are that the $100,000 income limitation for converting to a Roth IRA has been permanently removed, which means that unless Congress changes the rules you will be able to convert in 2011.  The decision to convert or not is a complex one which can be affected by other tax issues, so you should always consult with your tax advisor before making a final decision.

Eyes on Investors Radio Show with Special Guest H. Quincy Long

Title:

Quincy Long: How To Get Private Real Estate Loans and How They Work

Description:

Quincy knows private lending. In depth. In this interview he explains how to get fully financed from private lenders even if you don’t have a lot of money.

I talked to Quincy about how to make private loans, how to get them, and several ways to find properties that are less common but highly effective and profitable.

We also talked about self-directed retirement accounts to buy investments which he helps people do through his Texas company Quest IRA, Inc.

Leave a comment, let us know what you think of the interview!

link to interview:

http://eyesoninvestors.com/quincy-long/

How can I take possesion of a real estate property without selling it from my IRA?

Question:

Can I make a total distribution without selling the property in my IRA?  I would like to make a 60 day rollover and replace the IRA property with cash.  This would allow me to purchase another property.  Ultimately, I want my business to own the property outright.  Can I have an investor willing to buy the property and sell back to my business at a market rate?

Answer:

Yes, you can take a distribution of property from your IRA without selling it.  Simply get an appraisal of the property and request a distribution.

Unfortunately, you would not be able to replace the property with cash, since you can only roll over the same property as you distributed.  Also, if the IRS was able to detect that you sold the property to an investor who turned around and sold it to your business this would be an indirect prohibited transaction which would cause your IRA to be distributed as of January 1 of the year in which you did the prohibited transaction, so that should not be a path you pursue.